Glitter My Words

Myth #9 Orthodox Protestants are moral realists. They hold to objective values, where the LDS are moral relativists.

Protestant Christians, as typified by Blogstream bloggers at “Dummies”, speak boldly in favor of objective values but are moral relativists in defining their Christian institutions and subsequently in their personal obligations as members.

Realists believe that there are objective, irreducible moral properties which are nonnegotiable and should be considered factual claims when applied to their Christian organizations. As factual claims, they can only be true or false. Their truth or falsity does not depend on one’s belief, feelings, or other attitudes towards the things that are evaluated.

The slide to moral relativism is to the extent where the moral rightness of a property must be approved of by society. The need for societal approval leads to the conclusion that different values are right for folks in different societies.

It is a matter of record that all Protestant Christian denominations statements of faith vary substantially from one culture to another within a denomination. And, in some cases, from one church to another within the same denomination within the same culture.

Thoughout the scriptures there has been an age old pattern that God set in place and He has sustained. Doctrine, as the Lord provides it, has always come by revelation through a Prophet. In every case this has been true as there has been but one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and father of us all.

Having the religious order as was originally prescribed by God and having objective, irreducible moral properties identical among all people, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) are moral realists.

Glitter My Words

Myth #8: The Nicene Creed is the singular Christian consensus document that proves the LDS (Mormons) are not Christians

Some theologians would have you believe there is a consistent interpretation and application of the Nicene creed throughout the Christian world. Because the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints varies from it, the LDS are not Christian.

Thomisticguy (Baptist minister) and Purichristo (Assemblies of God member) have stated unequivocally that most every Christian organization and most every Christian takes the Nicene Creed in total as foundational to all of their doctrines. They assert that the solidarity is such that all those who vary from its original intended meaning are not Christian. They claim there is such a substantial Christian consensus that the disparity of the LDS in comparison condemns them. It should be noted. This is a retreat from an earlier affirmation that the Nicene Creed expressed the statement of faith that is foundationally complete for all doctrines and for all of Christendom.

Before participating in this discussion, please become knowledgeable with the implications of the creed.

The initial questions to be asked and evaluated are, “By what authority was the Nicene Creed written? Was the creed meant to be represent all of Christendom when it was written and adopted?” What implications are there for today?

The Nicene Creed was adopted by Bishops of the Roman Catholic Church at the direction of the pagan Emperor Constantine because the Roman Catholic Church by law was the state church of the Roman Empire . All other religions were to be eradicated. All schisms within the Catholic Church were to be eradicated. Absolute conformity was needed using the power of law through the Roman Emperor. The modern world in total was the Roman Empire , Christianity was to be its only religion, and there was to be on universal (catholic) Christian church. Thus, the creed by force of law was going to represent all of Christendom because the Emperor gave the dissenters an “offer that they could not refuse.” When the Bishops of the entire Eastern block of Christendom literally walked out when their definition of the Godhead was not to be incorporated, the solidarity the Emperor wanted did not occur. But through the weight of law helped all protesters of that time to submit to force.

The implications today, some 1500 years later, is that the meaning of the Nicene Creed, just as the meanings of the Bible changed. The creed, itself, did not change but Christian churches that came into existence used it as their personal meat hook to hang variant doctrines. The Protestant Reformation initiated widespread rejection of most things Catholic. As for the Nicene Creed, it had soft enough language that it proved quite malleable.

A singular example: The “one baptism” required in the Nicene Creed, administered through the Holy Priesthood of the One Universal Catholic Church, was to morph again and again as Protestants attempted to restore true Christian worship. Then, without central Priesthood authority, the Protestant churches and denominations began rejecting each other as well. The one baptism of the Catholic Bishops is now the tens of thousands of different baptisms of the heretic Protestants. Today we have innumerable creeds within Protestant Christianity that have discarded all things Priesthood.

The one baptism in the Nicene Creed is in fact many different baptisms total violation of the Nicene Creed. In violating the Nicene Creed and the Apostles’ Creed before it, they defined who they were – Protestants.

Conclusions:

The Church of Jesus Christ is a Christian Church and a great deal more. We have the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. Where so many unbiased sources attest that we are Christian, you should also.

'IKEPONO

Fire My Words

Myth #7: There is consensus on who is Christian and on who is not Christian. And as we press for exclusion, we create greater peace throughout the world.

Within a given denomination or wing of Christianity, there is usually a consensus about who is a Christian, and who is not. However, there is often little agreement among members of different faith groups on a common definition of "Christianity."

A Random group of adults can reach consensus on who is an evangelical Christian, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, historical Protestant, Pentecostal, LDS (Mormon), Jehovah’s Witness, and so on.

It is probably impossible to have any large group of adults reach a consensus on precisely who is a "Christian," and who is not.

There are 1,500 denominations, church affiliated groups just in the U.S. who consider themselves to be Christian. Then there are thousands semi-autonomous Christian congregations which are affiliated with a denomination. And there are thousands more who are not affiliated with any denomination. In assembling a random group of adults and asking each individual to sort the tens of thousands of groups into a pile of "true" Christians and another pile into those who are not “true” Christians, the result would produce groups nearly as random as the assembled adults. A given adult will select their own faith group as the only truly Christian denomination, and reject all others as unsatisfactory in comparison. Still others sorters might say that all are Christian. Thus, there is no possibility of reaching a common definition identifying the "truly" Christian.

The only reason we have agreement that approaches consensus on "Mormons are not Christian" in Thomisticguy’s anti-LDS Dummies blog is that they are not a random sample. The site is dominated by those who belong to his congregation and/or his personal bias.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints uses an inclusive definition of Christianity – A believer who sincerely, sympathetically, actively, and prayerfully considers themselves to be a Christian passes the test for us.

Some other Christians would scream “Foul! You claim to be the ‘ One True Church’; Mormons are Predators of other Christians.” Where one is in the possession of the truth does not make one predatory. Evidently, once people discover who we are they flock to us.

Thomisticguy practices religious exclusion . In particular, he defines the LDS as non-Christian and goes out of his way to be predatory, himself. His blog states his motives of attack. This approach has led to serious conflicts worldwide. Bosnia and Northern Ireland have experienced ongoing mass murder and genocide as they practice religious exclusion. Recent religiously based conflicts throughout the world have shown that some believers with a little Thomisticguy-like shoving find themselves moving from "The LDS are different from us," to "the Mormons are not really Christian," to "the polygamist-polytheists are out to get us," to "Those Jesus-hating child rapers have no right to live."