What exactly do you mean by," We have spent our spiritual strength."Respectfully now...Do you not see the signs of the times? Do you not note the differences from say 75 years ago? And most significantly from about the time of the assassination of JFK? Do you not see that in Vietnam the enemy did not penetrate us at home. But now our enemy is at our door? Do you not see the world view of us has drifted badly starting with Vietnam? You must know we were seen as savours in WWII. Do you not see this pattern in the Bible as a retribution to the wicked? (Remember, the wicked in the Bible never recognized themselves as wicked).
Also, in your conversion to the LDS church, I'm talking initially now, was it because of doctrinal issues you had with the Christian bible, or because a group of people, i.e, the LDSers, made you feel welcome and comfortable, and gave you a sense of community?
Your dual question is loaded with bias. I know you don't mean it. Lets clear that up first.
1. The LDS see themselves as Christian, just not Protestant, nor Catholic.We take sacrament every Sunday.
2. We carry, profusely read, teach from the "Christian Bible", the King James Bible . There are translation postscripts. BUT the postscripts do not change the text of the KJB (postscripts are found at the bottom of pages where they apply).
Now moving on to the your core questions. Was it initially doctrine or community?
Number one - before investigating the doctrines I watched the people to see if investigating the doctrines were worthy of MY time. It became clear to me as I watched them: these people were not the wretched slime I had been told. It became clear quite the opposite was true. I guess you could say as a result of seeing the preponderance of their fruits and their examples, my wife and I together began to talk to them about their doctrines, after 4 years of watching them happened BEFORE we did that.. What my wife would tell you is: "what I heard about the doctrines I always knew - I just didn't think it was to be found." Neither my wife nor I have anyone in our families before us that had any connection with the LDS. We didn't go to the LDS church until we decided to seriously study what it was that gave them the peace we saw. And we went only after serious prayer together and speparately. We needed to find out if what made their marriages solid was spiritually healthful or some kind of twisted, schrewd, satanic manipulation, as we had been told. You see, in particular, I could not figure out that one LDS couple we were friendly with never argued, there was never tension. I thought they were weird originally. I had learned that to communicate was appropriately a battle of ideas....I guess I learned that because I am real good at that.
And what about now; are you able to confess your sins and struggles with your fellow LDSers, or would you be afraid of being judged?
I have always been reluctant to share my soft middle.
First, There was nothing like Group (see comments at Dummies) but Group was not an outgrowth of Church we were attending. It was a counterculture. It was unique. We have moved beyond the activities there. We can apply them within and without our marriage wherever we go in the Christian world. We lived in the bush of Alaska for a year with no LDS church. And we were rock solid having church in our own home alone. We made good friends up there who were not members. Our nonmember friends up there knew of our struggles.
Second, confession publically was not something I saw during my Protestant experience except in private. Certainly within the classes at the LDS church there are discussions that delve into our human frailties and mistakes. But in my experience it has been unusual for people to bear their soul about great personal mistakes. The first Sunday of every month we have "fast and testimony meering" which is made up of confession and testimony giving during the regular church service. It is mostly acknowledgement of our gratitude to the Saviour and our testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel. Occasionally people will speak vaguely of their pain. Frequently I will stand and do likewise. But it is more a celebration, sometimes with tears.
Do you guys participate in confessing to one another, and keeping each other accountable?
That is who we are. It probably scares many away. Yes, it brought discipline and healing to my life. I could lose my Priesthood and the many formal promises I have received in our Temple, if I lost my way.
Just one more question Stealth, only cause I'm curious. I remember a few blogs back you stated that you've been a Mormon for 20something years now, but your still not a Deacon. What does it take for them to consider you " Temple worthy," and how is it that after 20something years, it's still not good enough for them?
You misunderstood, probably my own writing style. You are talking Priesthood here. Upon joining and after an interview with my Bishop I was approved to recieve the Aaronic Priesthood and because of my age and spiritual development I was set apart and became a Priest (skipping over Deacon). After a year, I was set apart in the Melchizedek Priesthood and ordained an Elder and after an interview, my wife and I separately both recieved "temple recommends". Many years later, after many significant responsibilities in the church, I was ordained a High Priest in the Melchizadek Priesthood.The difference between Elder and High Priest are significant and not necessarily related to age. It relates to responsibility and represents a greater measure of faith in Jesus Christ. There is no further advancement in Priesthood available to me unless I were to become a General Authority. That would be a position as an Apostle or Seventy. However, when I gained the Melchizadek Priesthood, technically there was not more Priesthood that I could recieve. General Authorities are Elders also.
I hope I was clearer this time around. I suspect this has generated more questions in your mind. If I can be of future help, let me know.
