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 Myth #4: God is impersonal, incorporeal, invisible, without body, without parts, without passions
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Myth #4: God is impersonal, incorporeal, invisibility, without body, without parts, without passions


Do you visualize a person when you pray to God?
Yes, all the time
Yes, some of the time
I don't pray
Generally No
Always No
  
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Thomisticguy, at his very successful blog, leads the pack of orthodox Protestants with genuinely valuable science and philosophy, but always the weight of it comes from man and not scripture. I genuinely like this man. But clear to my judgement, Thom will go to the Bible, find an obscure phrase, using it as his meat hook where His thoughts can be attached and displayed. He is a man of dark age philosophers with a complete dependence upon this myth #4.


Let's spend an entire topic looking at the scriptures on the subject. How refreshing, I say.


And here I pass by that marvelous appearance of God unto Abraham in the plains of Mamre, when three "men" came into his tent, one of whom was the Lord, who conversed with him, and partook of his hospitality, and disclosed to him His intention with reference to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Gen. 13.) But this Thom has need to ignore.




Then there is the marvelous revelation of God to Joshua, when Joshua drew near to Jericho and saw a person in the form of a man standing with sword in hand. Joshua approached him and said: "Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?" "Nay," replied the person, "but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come." And Joshua bowed himself to the very earth in reverence, and worshipped that august warrior. (Joshua 5: 13, 14.) Do not tell me that it was an "angel"; for had it been an angel, the divine homage paid by Israel's grand old warrior would have been forbidden. The fact that this personage, before whom Joshua bowed to the earth, received without protest divine worship from him, proclaims with the sound of trumpets that He indeed was God. Furthermore, that personage bade Joshua to remove the shoes from his feet for even the ground on which he stood was holy. Again, this Thom has need to ignore.




I call attention to that marvelous vision given of the Son of God to the pagan king of Babylon. This king had cast the three Hebrew children into the fiery furnace, and lo! before his startled vision were "four men" walking about in the furnace, "and," said he, "the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." (Dan. 3: 25.), But again Thom blinks.




The great Apostle to the Gentiles, writing to the Colossian saints, speaks of the Lord Jesus Christ, "in whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins," as being in the "image of the invisible God." (Col. 1, 15.) Blink, Blink.


Again, writing to the Hebrew saints, and speaking of Jesus, he says: "Who, being the brightness of his [the Father's] glory, and the express image of his [the Father's] person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." (Heb. 1: 1, 2.) Thom doesn't see this.




In the face of these scriptures, will anyone who believes in the Bible say that it is blasphemy to speak of God as being possessed of a bodily form? We find that the Son of God Himself stood among us as a man, with all the limitations, as to His body, which pertain to man's body; with head, trunk, and limbs; with eyes, mouth and ears; with affections, with passions; He exhibited anger as well as love in the course of His ministry; He was a man susceptible to all that man could suffer, called by way of pre-eminence, the "man of sorrows," and one "acquainted with grief"; for in addition to His own, He bore the world's sins, and suffered that men might not suffer if they would but obey His gospel.




What do you think of Christ, (open the eyes)?" Look at Him? Is he God? Yes. Is he man? Yes—there is no doubting it. His resurrection, and the immortality of His body, as well as of His spirit that succeeds His resurrection, is a reality. He Himself attested it in various ways. He appeared to a number of the apostles, who, when they saw him, were seized with fright, supposing they had seen a spirit; but He said unto them, "Why are ye troubled? And why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; handle Me and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have." (Luke xxiv: 36-39.) Then, in further attestation of the reality of His existence, as if to put away all doubt, He said, "Have ye here any meat?" And they brought Him some broiled fish and honeycomb, and "He did eat before them." (Luke xxiv: 41-43.) Think of it! A resurrected, immortal person actually eating of material food! But this you ignore.




But not only did the risen Messiah eat in the presence of His disciples, but with His resurrected hands He prepared a meal on the seashore for His own disciples, and invited them to partake of the food which He, with His resurrected hands, had provided. (John 21: 9-13, and Acts 10: 41.) Further, for forty days He continued ministering to His disciples after His resurrection, eating and drinking with them (Acts 10: 41, and Acts 1: 2, 3); and then, as they gathered together on one occasion, bang! He ascended from their midst, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. Presently two personages in white apparel stood beside them and said. "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven." (Acts I:11.) What! With His body of flesh and bones, with the marks in His hands and in His feet? Shall He come again in that form? The old Jewish prophet, Zechariah, foresaw that He would. He describes the time of His glorious coming, when His blessed, nail-pierced feet shall touch the Mount of Olives again, and it shall cleave in twain, and open a great valley for the escape of the distressed house of Judah, sore oppressed in the siege of their great city, Jerusalem. We are told that "They shall look upon Him Whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him as one mourneth for his only son," and one shall look upon Him in that day and shall say, "What are these wounds in Thy hands and in Thy feet?" and He shall answer, "These are the wounds that I received in the house of my friends." (Zech. the 12th, 13th and 14th chapters).

What think ye of Christ? Will that resurrected, immortal, glorified man ever be distilled into some bodiless, formless essence, to be diffused as the perfume of a rose is diffused throughout the air? Will He become an impersonal, incorporeal, immaterial God, without body, without parts, without passions? Will it be? Can it be? What think ye of Christ? Is He God? Is He an exalted man? Yes; in the name of all the Gods He is. And one wonders why Christian ministers arraign the faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because they believe and affirm that God is an exalted man, and that He has a body, tangible, immortal, indestructible, and will so remain embodied throughout the countless ages of eternity?—And since the Son is in the form and likeness of the Father, being, as Paul tells us, "in the express image of His [the Father's] person"—so, too, the Father, God must be a man of immortal tabernacle, glorified and exalted: for as the Son is, so also is the Father, a personage of tabernacle, of flesh and of bone as tangible as man's, as tangible as Christ's most glorious, resurrected body



Posted by Stealth at 1:39 PM - 8 Comments   Add a Comment  
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Comments:

Stealth,

I really think you need to reaffirm your LDS beliefs. Don't you know you are supose to believe that God is only possesed of a bodily form? Yet here you say, "it is blasphemy to speak of God as being possessed of a bodily form?" Strange indeed.

Anyways. Thom, nor any other Bible believing Christian, has never said God could not assume the form of a man, but rather has said that God is Spirit just as Christ claimed. Even the BoM teaches this. If you read a couple of the quotes you provided, you will notice some interesting phrases. This one in particular interests me. "saw a person in the form of a man"

Anyways, liek has been brought to your attention before, the various descriptions of God in the Bible make it clear that He is not tied to a given form, but rather, as an omnipotent spiritual being, appears as He sees fit. Oddly, we cannot do this, and yet we are still considered as being in the image of God ... I wonder hwo that works? Oh yeah, Thom adressed that in a previous point that you misconstrued in your prior myth.
 
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by PuriChristos (PM , CC ) on Saturday September 2, 2006 @ 4:45 PM




Stealth,

Seeing as you get so bent out of shape when someone who is not LDS tries to say what LDS doctrines teach, maybe you should take teh time to establish what Christians actually believe rather than twisting the facts to try and establish your point.
 
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by PuriChristos (PM , CC ) on Saturday September 2, 2006 @ 6:38 PM




Puri, You need to make a better attempt at reading. I'll do a copy/paste for you right here. If you feel compelled to comment read more carefully. It was a question...see the question mark? See what follows?

"In the face of these scriptures, will anyone who believes in the Bible say that it is blasphemy to speak of God as being possessed of a bodily form? We find that the Son of God Himself stood among us as a man, with all the limitations, as to His body, which pertain to man's body; with head, trunk, and limbs; with eyes, mouth and ears; with affections, with passions;"

----------------------------------------------------
As for making a case for what we believe in, there you have it. But one must read to see it. Too much painting - too much fumes?
 
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by Stealtharachnid (PM , CC ) on Sunday September 3, 2006 @ 1:27 AM




If I were twisting facts, certainly there would be someone from Dummies to comment. Certainly there would be someone who can bring more to the table than " I didn't mean this or that when I wrote it" someone who complains in generalities when they take the time to read with purpose.

Until that day, I quote the words and the doctrines as accurately as they are written. And then, I remark.
 
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by Stealtharachnid (PM , CC ) on Sunday September 3, 2006 @ 1:53 AM




Stealth,

I quoted you exactly. I'm sorry that you could make yourself more clear. Check for yourself. I did not change one word in my quotes of you. You obviously meen that it is blasphemous to teach that God has a body. That is what you said.

I quote the words and the doctrines as accurately as they are written. And then, I remark.
 
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by PuriChristos (PM , CC ) on Sunday September 3, 2006 @ 9:18 AM




There is a great deal of difference between willfully creating confusion through knowingly creating opposites. I write what I see. The wicked take the truth to be hard.

If I torment you so, why comment at all? If you can't bring meat to the table but can only subvert with no intent except to be a terrorist, why say anything here at all?

Can you teach? Use what you know to teach. You bring poison into your system by playing this game.

Seems to me, fundamentally, you just aren't very happy. If I can help tell me how.
 
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by Stealtharachnid (PM , CC ) on Sunday September 3, 2006 @ 2:45 PM




Hey, Stealth: Wow, I found another cult that is so similar to the LDS that it is amazing. They are the INC (Iglesia Ni Cristo) founded by Felix Manalo (now run by his son, Erano G. Manalo), the self-proclaimed prophet, in 1914. Membership numbers are secret, but the INC is estimated to have at least three million members -- and maybe as many as 10 million -- in a country with a population of only 75 million. They, per capita, are growing much faster than the LDS. They also, of course, place an extremely high value on “righteous living.” They also believe in the great “apostasy” and that they are the true church of Christ “restoring” Christianity. Here are some other “interesting” similarities with the LDS:
● Salvation is not by faith alone as Protestants believe.
● Denial of the orthodox Trinitarian belief.

Curiously, they also believe that God is corporeal. However, they lack the “interesting” belief that the pre-incarnate Jesus, Jehovah, did not have a body until he became flesh by mortal birth. This makes the LDS belief that the biblical words “image” and “likeness” refer to flesh and bones a little “problematic” because the LDS Jehovah (as well as the LDS Holy Ghost) had no such image or likeness when the conversation in Genesis 1 took place. I guess we can say that the Philippines’ cult is intellectually more coherent. Better watch out for them—they are growing fast!

 
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by Thomisticguy (PM , CC ) on Monday September 4, 2006 @ 12:56 AM




Thom, that's interesting information. I am perplexed as to what meaningful contribution you are making to the subject at hand? I am not seeing a connection. You have nothing to contribute. There are readers who wish you would defend your own words.  
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by Stealtharachnid (PM , CC ) on Tuesday September 5, 2006 @ 6:20 AM


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   
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