Laser My Words Myth #10: God is the Father of all Narcissists
In projecting what the affluent Protestant ministers value from their own elitist culture, they tell us that God stands at the pinnacle of narcissism. Those in the height of corruption always attribute those corrupting qualities to their God.
In conversation with Bebop Thomisticguy remarks, “ there is an infinitely wide gap between the person and nature of God.” At his own blog (Dummies), Thom explains how God has no need of any of us. He is absolutely content within himself, unable to attain any greater happiness from His creation. (Essentially, we have nothing to give except what He requires). In the whole of Thom’s essays on God, he tells us of God’s many limitations. This description mirrors another god which I will get to in a moment.
Thomisticguy remarked to Bebop, “ Christians believe that in heaven we can have a wonderful and intimate relationship with God”. Of course, Thom speaks from the perspective of his narcissistic elitist culture projecting that value system onto God. Can you see God and the Elite standing next to each other, each perfectly content within themselves, carrying on a conversation, each extolling qualities of themselves? And each listening to their own words only. … That is their intimacy.
Thomas continues with Bebop that real Christians believe the most profound love God extends to us is identified in the book of Romans 5:8 which says: “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”In this Thom quotes the Bible twisting it to his will. “ We learn love,” he says, “from how God expressed it toward us in the generous, free sacrifice of His Son for us”. Thom is essentially saying that the sacrifice of the Great Narcissist is no real sacrifice at all and really did not occur in the truest sense. After all, He still lives. Further, God did not sacrifice himself but instead had his son sacrifice Himself. Does this sound like the work of a Narcissist? It sure does to me. However, it certainly helps Protestant Christians in their problems with being intimate with a formless, passionless, nothingness they claim as God.
The origin of narcissism as applied to god is found in Greek mythology. It is the Greek mythology that Thomisticguy admits an obsession for. This is how the story goes: Narcissus was a handsome Greek who fell in love with his own reflection in a pool of water. Unable to consummate his love, the Greek god Narcissus remained emotionally separate, perhaps in the same manner God is for the Protestants.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints knows that God the Son and God the Father to have passions and incredibly deep love for us. God is focused on our welfare not His own. Where Thomisticguy has revealed that Christ’s thoughts on the cross were not significantly about you and me, we know differently. God’s mission throughout all eternity is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of mankind. His focus is entirely outside Himself.
If you would like to investigate the True God, the course of action you should take is to obtain a copy of the Book of Mormon by contacting a member of the LDS Church.
Also, Thom has often said that mankind should find contentment in God. This is certainly not narcisism in any sense.
I would argue that a narcisist might make a post tryign to vilify his opponent by intentionally taking quotes out of context to support a truely innacurate pov thereby making themselves look good by comparison ... but I don't know who might try to do that.
October 8th topic was entitled (Boldly) "You are completely Unnecessary to God"
In the text of this topic he writes in part:
"The only thing that God has ever had on His mind as a necessary thought is His own blessed Being. God is completely fulfilled and ever in a state of happiness within Himself. ...He DOES NOT need you!"
The really funny thing about this is you will support him in these words, even though they convict both of you. This is the God you believe in. Good luck finding Him. He is a Greek god.
Have a great rest of the week my brother in the gospel. Beth.
This is the corner that Protestant "reasoning" has painted themselves into. It's an outrageously insulting point of view. And everyone over there, including yourself, have bought into it.
Well, I guess your flower probably has a self esteem problem. Either that or doesn't need the water you may be providing it.
Stealth, let me help you with this thought, since you seem to be missing the point.
I would like to draw you to two important words here. "necessary" and "need." This statement does not say that God does not think about us, and it does not say that God is not concerned with us. It does say that God is complete with or without us. It is an important concept that you cannot wrap your head around because you seem to think you are so important that God needs you to be complete.
Here are a few other quotes from Thom that make this clear (from the same entry).
"God is so good, even though He needs nothing; He diffuses His goodness by creating and sustaining everything that is made."
"God is the only necessary Being. You and I are completely contingent. We do not have to be here. God MUST exist"
"God has no needs and yet He freely gives His love and goodness to His creation. That, my friend, is LOVE! Now let’s take this thought up a notch by looking at the Cross. Though God had no need for our love, He freely give His only begotten Son to die for humanity on an ugly cross so that all who would believe might have an eternal relationship with Him. Oh, and by the way, the definition of love is to do good toward another. NOW THAT IS LOVE!"
I'm sure that it doesn't matter to you one way or another, since you did get to read the entire blog entry, but others that just read your quote out of context might need a little bit extra to know the Truth instead of the lie you bring.
I was just reading your myth, and I have to say you should agree with this. "God is the Father of all Narcissists." Since you believe that all are literal sons and daughters of god from preexistance, then he would be the father of all narcissists. Just thought I'd throw that one out there for you.
1. God needs my Love because it makes a difference to him. He has a purpose that would be thwarted without His Church and its worthy memebers here and now doing His will.
2. Thom's words are driven because he and other Protestants see a God without Passion and they view Him over a great gulf. They and you have some work to do in order to understand.
3. There is no gulf between God and me. He and I are covenant partners. He is here with me now. This is not to say I am a profitable servant. It is to say that He notes my potential. My potential is a consequence of the choices I make. My progress brings Him Joy.
Like I said, it sounds like the narcisist is the one who thinks their god needs them.
As for your other statements. Your are confusing protestants with Deists. If you read the quotes I provided, you will see that Thom is using this to prove that God's choice to love us is much more powerful since He doesn't need us. It is a perfectly free and magnanimous choice.
I should also point out that there is not a gulf between the Christian and God in the protestant mind. The gulf is sin, and Christ's sacrifice bridges that gulf.
Really Stealth, this is milk kind of stuff.
It is nearly an absolute contradiction. The relationship is totally contrary and denies the first premise. It is human invention and correlates to nothing concerning Love in creation.
Those things that I do not need are loved LESS by me than those things I do need and love. You speak of a principle that does not exist anywhere. All those who have no investment in me, having no need for me, having no personal capital invested in me, having no capacity to feel any differently about my failings, this is not God, this is an invention of man.
Such a Love creates no bond. I do not believe anyone can claim truthfully to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ believing this. If they do, they will experience no power in it.
This is why it fails us to imagine that God is a man. Notice how you cannot prove your point without using yourself as an example. In who's image is your god made?
Man needs to be needed. Man needs things that we love. God has perfect love, and loves what He does not need because He is so good and benevolent. God even loves those who do not love Him. God's love is not changed based on our response to Him. He does not start loving us more when we choose Him.
I think any human must realize their own prideful arrogance when assuming that God thinks or reacts like we do. We are the creation and He is the creator. We could not create Him so to say and judge Him by our reactions and emotions is ludicrous and beyond rational thinking. That would put God on our level and quite frankly demean Him and His abilities. Get real! – Before or the fall off your own pedestal might kill you.
There is a really telling statement there about the true nature of God. It repenteth God that He created mankind.
Now if we mean nothing to him how could he have repented or felt remorseful for creating such a wicked group of beings that he felt the need to destroy all of them along with nearly every other creation he had made.
It is a really neat fact because now I have an entire coral bed in under my garden. Geologicalically verified.
So you can see that God does have feelings and created us in his image. Those are his words not Stealth's and not mine. I would also that the "glad passages there are over 800 of them" to quote Pollyanna aka a writer for Walt Disney or perhaps Disney himself.
I perfectly agree if God mentioned it over 800 times then he must himself, since we are made in his image want us to be happy and your statements made here have never been glad concerning your collective religions. From what I have read.
Be glad you made it to this world. Beth.
Yes, I really did write to Bebop that God has absolutely no needs and therefore He has no need to create us. The alternative is a “needy” god that must act based on his needs and desires. For instance, I must eat or I will die. I have a real need for food. However, God is self-existent (this is what His name means--Yahweh, the self-existent One).
• The LDS god, of course, is a projection of a human into a god. Therefore, the LDS god (actually gods since LDS are polytheists) is just a bigger one of us with all our attendant needs including the need for companionship, sex, bodily touch, sensate experience, lust, anger, etc. Actually, there is no significance difference between the LDS god(s) and the ancient Greek gods of Mt. Olympus with their capricious and sensuous behavior.
• Because the real God in heaven has no needs and is absolutely content within himself, His love for us is truly understood in the Greek word agape. God’s love is not based on any intrinsic need that He has but purely an expression of His self-giving love. On the other hand, the LDS god’s love is best described by the Greek word eros which is based on an intrinsic need for sensate contact and “feelings” (also known as passions). Since the LDS god(s) has human passions such as anger, lust, resentment, peevishness and the like, his love is erotic or need-based.
• Yes, I do really believe that the Bible means what it says in Romans 5:8 which says: “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” We learn the true meaning of love from God. God, without needing anything from us and while we were His enemies, sent His Son to die for us on a cruel cross. This is known as agape love (the actual Greek word used by Paul in Rom. 5:8)--self-giving love that is not need-based. But, again, the LDS god is need-based in all that he is and does. There is no fundamental difference between the LDS god and a two-year old human.
• Narcissism is seeing your own image in everything--just like Narcissus and his reflection. It is putting your own needs above everything else. God does not do this because He has no needs. However, the LDS god is supremely narcissistic in the sense that he is a projection of Joseph Smith’s image into a divine being. What LDS adherents worship is a projection of Smith’s image of himself.
I thought this statement deserved special attention: you wrote, “Thom is essentially saying that the sacrifice of the Great Narcissist is no real sacrifice at all and really did not occur in the truest sense. After all, He still lives. Further, God did not sacrifice himself but instead had his son sacrifice Himself. “
• You cannot understand God’s sacrifice of His Son upon a cruel cross because you are blinded by your own heretical view of the Trinity. Because God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all one, the Son’s atoning sacrifice on the cross (not in the Garden of Gethsemane) included the full Blessed Trinity. Such a Trinitarian sacrifice would not be possible in LDS thinking because you do not believe that the three divine persons are essentially one.
Here is another insightful statement: you wrote, “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints knows that God the Son and God the Father to have passions and incredibly deep love for us. God is focused on our welfare not His own. Where Thomisticguy has revealed that Christ’s thoughts on the cross were not significantly about you and me, we know differently.”
• You are very correct, the LDS believe that your god has passions--I couldn’t have said it better. This means he has lust, anger, resentment, peevishness, bitterness, embarrassment, and the whole gamut of passions that Joseph Smith had. The LDS god, again, is a narcissistic projection of the very real humanness of his creator, Joseph Smith.
• By necessity, an “incredibly deep love” that is centered in “passions” must be sensual, this is known as eros in the Greek and is not the biblical love of agape that gives of oneself without needing anything in return. Because LDS theology is loaded with this kind of passionate erotic love, its afterlife is populated by gods that have planets and goddesses, sexual relations, spirit children, etc.
• The Christian God does not have to focus on His own welfare because He has no needs and no competitors. The LDS god must focus beyond his needs because he actually has needs. Humans must do the same--focus beyond their needs and care about others. In other words, the LDS god is a projection of human attributes onto the divine. The LDS god is a projection of Joseph Smith and his sensual needs onto a divinity.
• Christ’s thoughts upon the cross are actually stated in the Bible. It says of Jesus, “who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God” (Heb 12:2). Christ’s thoughts were of “the joy that was set before him” and not of Stealth or of Thom or of anyone else. Christ’s eyes were upon heavenly things. This is why Hebrews admonishes Christians to take their eyes off of worldly things and focus upon God and they will, therefore, become more effective in the here-and-now. In our hour of suffering we are to look to Jesus as He looked to His father. However, the LDS Jesus would have been thinking about LDS followers and not God. His eyes would have been on earth and not heaven. This sort of earthly and worldly religious focus is typical of LDS belief because it is earthly and worldly by nature.
You may not realize this because, perhaps, no one has been bold enough to tell you; however, the LDS view of God is considered by Christians, Jews and even Muslims as blasphemous.